Long Piece About Bats, Stems and Lyrics

YOU RANG?

As you know I hang upside down in a dark closet like a bat until summoned.  Did you know bats piss themselves to regulate body temperature?  Any other bits of bat trivia would be welcome. 

Stems are a fine idea!  I have a label to run this by.  I'll see what I can do.  I don't mind people signing a petition at all.  It means you give a damn and I can't argue with that.  Thank you.  Senselessdrum seems to be the most outspoken about all of this at the moment, and to you I say:  Yes sir!  The quality of an album is ultimately the responsibility of the artist.  Some people love this album, some hate it, some don't care.   Its all a matter of opinion.  I love opinions.  I don't love opinions that are stated as if they are fact but I suppose we're all guilty of that from time to time.   I’m thrilled you care, and so I don’t mind spending some time caring back.

If this album was a movie I was the actor, passing on director's responsibility this time around so I could get a different perspective.  I chose a director, a producer who's made many more albums than I, who had a totally different way of looking at things - a yes man would have would have just done as I said in which case I would rather just produce myself.  I believe in giving a producer a lot of authority, like Amanda Palmer did for me recently when I produced her album.  Of course when a dissatisfied audience member leaves a movie early and throws a half cup of melted ice and coke at the poster in the lobby, its the picture of the lead actor that gets wet.  And I did say in my thank you section that anything less than perfect was my fault.  So I’d already agreed with that point.

As far as the sound goes, I wasn't involved in the engineering but I suspect what a lot of you are reacting to - the compression and distortion - began in the recording phase since during the mix there generally wasn't the option of a clean sound.  Compression seemed to have been committed to tape.  That effect was compounded in the mix and again in mastering.  So I don't believe its simply mastering that some of you are finding disagreeable.   

Dennis and engineers were actively going for this sort of thing.  A broken ribbon mic was chosen for many of the vocals and Dennis had me singing about a half inch from the mic.  They compressed and EQ'd the vocals heavily to tape.  I wasn't aware that they'd all been effected that way until the mix and it became obvious that there was no changing these things at that point.  So I embraced the effect and went with it.  Mixing from stems and self mastering could gain quite a bit of dynamic and would be interesting to hear.  I may do the same thing for the hell of it. 

I don't have perspective on the production of the album at this point.  Its too soon.  I usually hate what I’ve just done until I start making the next record.  I’m just now able to hear what’s good about Silverman.   That's why when I'm the producer I like to move quickly if possible because I lose perspective quickly.  I don't really like to get heavy on effects and compression but that's my personal slant - I'd like to see the music do most of that work but I also don't like to get stuck in my own rules.  I've produced a lot of my recent stuff so I thought it was time to try something different - Dennis was definitely different.    In mastering I tend to like a slightly lower level that makes room for dynamics, headroom for low end, transients etc.  This is old fashioned and sometimes it really just sounds dumpy when put into context with "modern" music - like when I hear my music at a restaurant and the next song by some other artist blasts it out of the room.  So I was open to this loud method.  I'll try anything once.  Or four times even.   

I wasn't at mastering so I'm not sure what was done.  Not because I didn't care, but because I didn't feel I had anything to offer aside from my typical "turn it down and take it easy on the multi-band compression" comments.   

Loudness is definitely now an official industry wide issue.  Its spread into the general public via articles like the one in Rollingstone about the Loudness Wars.  Loudness is like contrast in black and white printing.  High contrast is often the symptom of a hopeless amateur, although some master printers, like Ralph Gibson use it to amazing effect.  Loudness is also like a tattoo.  If your friends talk you into it on a drunken night, you can't really bitch about it the next day because its on you for good.  Might as well embrace it.  Or go even go for the full sleeve! 

Loudness might currently represent the dinosaur of the old music industry that's desperate to compete.  As that dinosaur becomes completely extinct its possible that all production with Loudness will be buried alive with it, including albums like mine.  A Loudness witch hunt may ensue, half of the Loudness haters not even knowing what compression is. Years from now some of those albums might be revived.  Disco was Satan for years and then we discovered Abba and the Bee Gees again.  All disco wasn't bad. 

Lyrics?  I can speak on that subject better because I was the lyricist.  I stand behind every syllable and would change nothing.  Reviewers who have been critical of the record seem to have a lot of really aggressive nasty things to say about who they think I am with very little to say about the music.  The most recent one actually just came out and called me an assh*le and suggested I see a shrink! Not even a pretense of a review.  It reminds me of those stories about soap opera actors who get yelled at in the groceries store for something mean their character did in the last episode. They are interpreting the lyrics in a way that I didn't intend.  Usually they seem to feel that I'm ‘angry’ and ‘bitter’ and that the record is one ‘long rant’.  Seemingly inspired they go on to write their very own long, angry and very personal rant using the word ‘irony’ occasionally but missing its existence in their own review. It is as if these people have been chomping at the bit since they were fifteen to rip me a new assh*le and they’ve come charging out of the gate, not failing to mention all their least favorite parts of my past albums while they were at it.  I hit a nerve is seems and I don't even understand the nerve I hit!  The one healthy criticism I might glean from these reviews, even if I’m reading between the lines, is that perhaps my lyrics weren’t clear enough!?

Then again, I see loads of positive reviews, many of which seem to get the lyrics.  The Suburbs’ very own Emerald, for instance could easily explain nearly everything I was trying to do.  So its possible that there's more to the lyrics than meets some eyes, even if its not your cup of tea. 

Effington has been called an ‘angry tirade‘ aimed at middle America (I hate freedom?!).  I'm not sure how they got that but they were c*cked and ready to defend the heartland.   Its just that I always daydream about veering off the road in random towns, getting a job, a new life.  Its a choice that you could make and I’ve always been fascinated by that.  I was on a bus with a youth orchestra traveling through Poland during the cold war and kept wondering what my life would be like if I were to slip off the bus at a truck stop and disappear into some random village and learn Polish... The concept isn’t too damn deep, but certainly nothing near a “tirade”.  Even the ‘effing’ in cars and houses stuff.  Don't you look at a town when you're passing it and just once wonder how many of the buildings are concealing full on mating rituals?  Haha.  Well, maybe not, but its occurred to me anyway.  Anyway, the mayor of Effingham has a sense of humor since he’s promised me my very own plot in the graveyard!

Free Coffee is my ‘rant ‘at baristas who give me something for free?  Nah.  And the imagery in this one is very careful and intentional.  Why has the old guy driving with an ice cream cone of all things?  How many many tasks is he taking on at once and where is he going in his car, in life?  He's still a child deep inside right?  He was always told life was short but it doesn't seem that way sometimes and he always finds himself back at what seems like the beginning.  The only difference is in the way people perceive him?  Maybe the free coffee is the senior coffee at f*cking Burger King so its pity coffee and not the fringe benefits of rock stars?  Whatever the case, he's just peering out of his vessel thinking how bizarre life is while unable to resist getting caught up in the pressure of it.  The character in Dr Yang isn't kicking ass and taking names across the medical profession.  This character is just trying to get it right.  If you got more time on your hands you start trying to fix yourself, or even finding problems that don't exist to fix.  That's not so bad.  But you have to laugh at it sometimes.   

Speaking of laughing, yes I knew people would probably laugh at the diaper line in Cologne and I do realize its a fairly radical thing to do in a pretty song.  But its not a joke.   Isn’t life sad and funny at the same time?  Its a pretty desperate situation when you’re so tortured and obsessed that you'll sit in your own piss for 18 hours.  That's focus!  And its real life.  This is the kind of drama that actually happens.  Is it allowed to be in a song?  I say yes, but it will put some people off.  Its also the kind of thing you might notice in a paper and wonder if your soul mate who's far away has seen it too.  Imaginary conversations -  the poets who look up at the same stars as their long distance lover might, hoping for some connection.  Only these days we see the headlines more clearly than the stars.  I am sorry if it provides an awkward birth control moment in an otherwise booty grabbing number.  To each his own.  It at least gets two points for being unique.  But I'm not trying to be Weird Al.    God I could go on about each song.  Yeah, some of them are barbed in places but I can find almost all of the ‘’easy targets’ in myself.  Often I enjoy writing from a less likable point of view than is normal in a business which hinges on heroes. If others feel uneasy as they find parts of themselves in there too, join the club. Life’s a trip, isn’t it?

Still, that's a very small part of the album and if music means anything in the equation I feel like the record is just about energy.

Once, my then four year old son Louis was in tow for the long trek from Australia to America and was playing with some wooden blocks on the airport floor in LAX.  They were Waldorf toys I think – something seemingly simply that requires imagination. He was engrossed.  He and his twin sister had spent most of their early years in Australia where children aren’t bombarded quite as much with the culture of videos and action TV at such a young age.  An American kid his age sat with down and tried to play with him for a moment but decided the blocks weren’t cool.  "Dude that's totally boring!"  Louis had been imagining all kinds of worlds of characters by himself and some video game kid who said "dude" informed him he was an idiot for enjoying his own creativity.  Louis looked pretty deflated and put the toys down because he didn't want to be uncool.  Damn shame.

I have twice been attacked by bats.
Both experiences ended up with me schoolgirl screaming.
That's not really trivia.
Probably what I got for, erm, decorating, my boss's front yard.


And really the Cologne line is nice on the pointed level - though, you'd be surprised how many people are out of touch with quasi-current events and don't know it actually happened.... which results in some laughter cause they think you made it up.


Thanks for stopping by, again, and giving us some (more) insight. We're gonna be really spoiled, if we aren't already.


And that story about Louis is heartbreaking.



and.... i don't think ben's let go of halloween yet - bats and satan in the same post.

HAHA you can't say c*cked.

on the off chance that he comes back and reads the responses!

dear ben,
1. i think it is 100% awesome that you take the time to post on your own fan boards, of which i am on occasional member.  it's very interesting to get the actual artist's take on the fans' responses to the artist's work.  i have way too much to say about the new album to put it all here, but the overwhelming message: it's pretty damn terrific. so i'll leave it at that.  also, what allison said: that story about louis is depressing.  oh, americans.
2. i have to thank you again for signing that cd for me and my sister in dallas.  i'm the girl from michigan who came to dallas to see you with her sister.  i cannot tell you how great that night was, and it was primarily thanks to you!
3. i'd also like to take the opportunity to mention that tom peterson's shirt you seemed to wear all the time over the summer.  how do you know about tom peterson?! i thought i was the only person outside of portland who knew about tom peterson and how ridiculous his store is.  i have a tom peterson alarm clock!
4. of course, if you're reading this, i'll say this too: your music is really, really great and has had a profound effect on me.  so thanks for being such a fantastic musician/generally rad human being..
5. bats are scary as hell.  i got attacked by a bat one night when i was 13 and i lost my shit.  that was an intense evening.

sincerely,
mkg

ps.  i think that someday soon you and the band should host a question-and-answer session on thesuburbs.  i have so many questions about your music but the one time i got to talk to you the only thing i could manage to say was "hi you're awesome."  mull it over, perhaps?  it could be totally bitchin' if you guys did something along those lines.  

I agree that senslessdrummer has stong opinions, but he is an .orger, afterall. Me a reformed orger, have been long a burbs resident, and only an occasional .org visiter (So I know what it's like and where he's coming from). Only because it is funny at times, but I really do still enjoy the music. All of it. Even Silverman. And Rent A Cop. So nanner. Anyways, speaking of stong opinions, people just don't seem to want you or the music to grow up. I like the new music, the lyrics, the loudness of it, and the difference of Free Coffee. Yes it sounds great live, but what song sounds as it does on an album as it does live. That would be boring. And boring sucks.
But seriously, what's with that little quip in Cologne after "Such a painful trip, to find out this is it"?
I heard it again while doing an oil change on the wife's Mazda (damn 2200 mile round trip to Chapel Hill, sucking all the life outta her car) and had to ponder... is it SUPPOSED to be there?
I would have asked you but you ducked out on me.... and Allison several times last month.

Oh and my 3 year old likes to pretend our hallway is a dark cave with bats and bears and whatnot. And we watched Batman Returns in the hotel the afternoon of the BF5 reunion show. That's all I know of bats, really. OH and the one time in Temple of Doom when that chick picked one up and thought it was her shirt. That shit was funny as hell.

thanks, mr. ben! good to know you care enough to come on here. nice analogies, by the way. i especially liked the actor/director one (splashing soda on the poster).

you truly are the best.

EDIT: oh, the "you rang?" part cracked me up. i had to wait a few minutes to collect myself, and continue to read an eye-bending laundry list of pretty paragraphs. i'd read this over death of a salesmen anyday (i do enjoy it, just with all the other hw, it seems less enjoyable...bah).

HAHA you can't say c*cked.

Nah, Ben Folds just has his burbs censor on. Which kind of makes me laugh, seems backward.


And Chloe, I lovelovelovelove Death of A Salesman. We acted it out in my American Lit class back in the day of being your age.... maybe that's why I love it so much.

ps.  i think that someday soon you and the band should host a question-and-answer session on thesuburbs.  i have so many questions about your music but the one time i got to talk to you the only thing i could manage to say was "hi you're awesome."  mull it over, perhaps?  it could be totally bitchin' if you guys did something along those lines. 

We have a interview with Jared up here somewhere - though, that was Andy doing all the questioning, aaaaageeeess ago. But, also, the fanclub has a 'Ask Ben a Question' contest right now... are you a member?
And- hahaha 'hi. you're awesome' is better than my first lines to ben; 'oh, my friends are never gonna believe i met you.' in fact, one of them hung up on me before i'd even left the alleyway when i called in my fit of glee.


ps: i just spent a half hour on the phone with chris/sensslessdrum to assure him that ben wasn't angry with him. unless, you are, of course.... and then i instilled a false sense of security in him. whoops.

pps: ben, you get a few more points for starting your thread in the right subsection, most of us don't even do that.

Aw Ben. I am guilty of stating my opinions as fact. I've spent a lot of time and money, in the thousands $, and I guess I do care/am level-headed enough to feel as though I have a right to say those things. Tough love is the most necessary love. I can take it just as much as I can dish it. Not to say I was necessarily dishing anything out- but I think you can (hopefully) understand that I do in fact care. Not every fan is going to like what you put out compared to what you've put out before. Not every fan had the luxury of following you from the beginning. I can see that side of things at the same time. I hope I wasn't too harsh, but somehow I doubt you are phased. As you shouldn't be. You know just how talented you are as a musician/songwriter. And I know that as well.

You bitchez ready for a post longer than Ron Jeremy's c*ck?  Well good.  Because this post is longer than Ron Jeremy's c*ck.

Any other bits of bat trivia would be welcome.

Bats are deathly allergic to me beating the f*ck out of them with a trash-can lid that one time in Pennsylvania when that bat got in the kitchen.

I don't love opinions that are stated as if they are fact but I suppose we're all guilty of that from time to time.   I’m thrilled you care, and so I don’t mind spending some time caring back.

I see how you cleverly avoided stating your opinion about opinions as fact.  Your reputation as a wordsmith, sir, is not undeserved.  Like Barack Obama, you lead our nation forward into the future on a magic carpet of clever verbal trickery.

Lyrics?  I can speak on that subject better because I was the lyricist.  I stand behind every syllable and would change nothing.  Reviewers who have been critical of the record seem to have a lot of really aggressive nasty things to say about who they think I am with very little to say about the music.  The most recent one actually just came out and called me an assh*le and suggested I see a shrink! Not even a pretense of a review.

You notice how many of these people criticize the album for being "too angry"?  It's one of the Rolling Stone talking points that every other review in the industry is required to recite verbatim before/if they plan on saying anything original.  What the hell happened to rock music that makes reviewers think it isn't supposed to be angry?  Have Regina Spektor and Death Cab For Cutie completely neutered rock, to the point that we can't even remember that the Sex Pistols and The Clash used to be the saviors of rock because they were angry?

Whatever.  Dude, don't apologize for being angry, bitter, cynical, or any other negative emotion.  They're valid feelings, and if they have a home anywhere, it's rock music.  Used to be, the critics knew that and respected it.  Apparently we're not allowed to be pissed anymore.  Not when indie-rock means chicks that sing like retarded four-year-olds and guys singing like they shoved a peeled lemon up their ass and jacked off with Icy-Hot.

not failing to mention all their least favorite parts of my past albums while they were at it.

Well I don't want to be left out of that crowd.  The last three songs on Silverman sucked.

I hit a nerve is seems and I don't even understand the nerve I hit!

Rock isn't supposed to be personal, emotional, or raw in any way.  Try to be more like Nickelback on your next album: fake, calculated, manipulative, trendy, neutered, and focus-grouped.  You see, you need to trade your realistic song about demeaning women ("Bitch Went Nuts") for a fake, disgusting, chauvinistic song about demeaning women ("Figured You Out").  And you need to throw out the ironic musings about being successful in America ("Free Coffee") in favor of endless self-masturbation about success in America ("I Wanna Be A Rock Star").  Reject your serious examinations of what's wrong with America ("Frown Song") and replace them with mindless sub-pop drivel that would shame Bono for simplicity ("If Everyone Cared").  And finally, don't bother with the kind of serious introspection that you've been putting on your albums ("Effington"), not when you can do a cheesy power ballad about drinking or wisdom or whatever the hell ("This Is How You Remind Me").  Critics, who are only doing that job because they're emotionally stunted and got too many swirlies in high school, don't want to be forcibly exposed to serious, real emotionality or sincerity, because those are ideas they'll never fully understand (and most don't want to.)  So do them a favor: write a bullshit pop-rock record next time.  You've already out-boy-banded the boy-bands with "Girl," and out-Broadwayed Broadway with "Morgan Davis".  Can you out-Nickelback Nickelback?  My money's on YES.

So its possible that there's more to the lyrics than meets some eyes, even if its not your cup of tea.

Totally.  Anyone who doesn't see the existentialist meditation of "Errant Dog" is a moron.  (I'm cool because I can pretend to get things!)

Effington has been called an ‘angry tirade‘ aimed at middle America (I hate freedom?!).

Dude, don't be ashamed of that.  I hate freedom too.  Freedom=Paris Hilton.  Unfreedom=the highly successful socialist governments of Cuba, Australia, Canada, and much of Europe.  Unfreedom for the win, dawg.

I was on a bus with a youth orchestra traveling through Poland during the cold war and kept wondering what my life would be like if I were to slip off the bus at a truck stop and disappear into some random village and learn Polish... The concept isn’t too damn deep, but certainly nothing near a “tirade”.

So tell me Ben, why do you hate Poland?  You got a problem with "the heartland of Europe"?  Are they too real for you and your rock-star ways?  You and your twelve houses and fancy cars and bling bling?

Don't you look at a town when you're passing it and just once wonder how many of the buildings are concealing full on mating rituals?

F*ck that, I go in and check.

Anyway, the mayor of Effingham has a sense of humor since he’s promised me my very own plot in the graveyard!

If you are, in fact, buried in Effingham, I will, I assure you, be effing on your grave shortly afterwards.  (Too far?  Across the line?  I don't think so.  Not to the guy who REDEFINED ANGER IN ROCK MUSIC BY PUTTING "c*nt" ON A RECORD!)

The character in Dr Yang isn't kicking ass and taking names across the medical profession.

Who thought Dr. Yang was about kicking medically-professional asses?  

Isn’t life sad and funny at the same time?

That's deep.  Here, take another hit of the joint.

Its a pretty desperate situation when you’re so tortured and obsessed that you'll sit in your own piss for 18 hours.

Not if you're a bat regulating body temperature!

Its also the kind of thing you might notice in a paper and wonder if your soul mate who's far away has seen it too.

Jesus, I hope not.  I don't want her getting ideas about driving from Maryland to Kansas to kill me in a diaper.

But I'm not trying to be Weird Al.

Hey, you know that dude, right?  Could you try and coax him to focus more on original songwriting than parodies?  I really like his original songwriting better.  I understand if our friendship hasn't developed to the point at which you feel comfortable doing that for me, being as how we don't know each other at all, and we're not "friends" so much as "people typing on the internet", and I'm basically just an a**hole fan, but if the opportunity comes up, you know, like in a conversation with the guy, just think about mentioning it.

God I could go on about each song.

Please do.  Even to the point of being late for a show.  Seriously, I don't give a f*ck if you're ten minutes late to some show in Bayonne or Bozeman or Lewistown or whatever dirtball burg gets the pleasure of your company next.  And while you're at it, what's the story behind "Philosophy" from the first Ben Folds Five album?  This dude keeps asking me, and I keep telling him I don't know.  It's seriously undermining my credibility.

Still, that's a very small part of the album and if music means anything in the equation I feel like the record is just about energy.

Yeah man!  In all seriousness, it's the best one since the first Ben Folds Five album.  This album (and the fake one) turned me from a casual Ben Folds fan into a rabid Ben Folds fan that hangs out on this message board.  So, for me, at least, you made a great record.  So hey: good job dude, and thanks.

Louis looked pretty deflated and put the toys down because he didn't want to be uncool.  Damn shame.

Yeah.  Wow.  What a downer.

I don't know if you actually read these replies or not, so maybe I just typed a bunch of sh*t for my own benefit, but it was cathartic for me (I had a bad week.)  But if you are reading: is Brainwascht about Fleming and John?  C'mon, dude, you know you wanna say who it's about.  What's the use in publicly telling a wickedly embarrassing story about someone cheating on their wife in the basement in 1994 if you can't let everyone else in on it?

Aw Ben. I am guilty of stating my opinions as fact. I've spent a lot of time and money, in the thousands $, and I guess I do care/am level-headed enough to feel as though I have a right to say those things. Tough love is the most necessary love. I can take it just as much as I can dish it. Not to say I was necessarily dishing anything out- but I think you can (hopefully) understand that I do in fact care. Not every fan is going to like what you put out compared to what you've put out before. Not every fan had the luxury of following you from the beginning. I can see that side of things at the same time. I hope I wasn't too harsh, but somehow I doubt you are phased. As you shouldn't be. You know just how talented you are as a musician/songwriter. And I know that as well.

"Fazed."  The spelling, in this context, is "fazed."

Ben have you ever listened to the Black Keys?

You don't have to respond to this, but I think an artist can take a big lesson (no matter how famous you are, sir!) from how they recorded their first few albums. They did what they called "recording with equal parts good shit and broke ass shit"  - sometimes all they had was a drum mic and a 3-piece and an old beat-up fender and made a sort-of "medium-fidelity" type of sound. There's a quality to it that is unrivaled in recording today, besides in some more underground indie bands; where you can take things that normally wouldn't sound good and make it louder but not make it sound as if its some sh*tty live recording. Granted, a lot of it was recorded on 4-track reels, and not much digital, if at all.

All I'm saying is I recommend them, not just because they are a brilliant two-piece band, but because their recording technique is awe-inspiring in my opinion.

Quote from: senselessdrum on November 02, 2008, 10:13:09 PM

Aw Ben. I am guilty of stating my opinions as fact. I've spent a lot of time and money, in the thousands $, and I guess I do care/am level-headed enough to feel as though I have a right to say those things. Tough love is the most necessary love. I can take it just as much as I can dish it. Not to say I was necessarily dishing anything out- but I think you can (hopefully) understand that I do in fact care. Not every fan is going to like what you put out compared to what you've put out before. Not every fan had the luxury of following you from the beginning. I can see that side of things at the same time. I hope I wasn't too harsh, but somehow I doubt you are phased. As you shouldn't be. You know just how talented you are as a musician/songwriter. And I know that as well.

"Fazed."  The spelling, in this context, is "fazed."

I've been such a bad speller since I took the 3rd place trophy at the spelling bee in the fifth grade!


Armadillo!


not armidillo!!!

D'OH!!

now that we're way off the topic, sort of... i feel the record as a whole a story.  and i love that.  every time i listen i keep getting these characters in my head and all these funky scenes start to play out.  it amuses me.

I've been such a bad speller since I took the 3rd place trophy at the spelling bee in the fifth grade!


Armadillo!


not armidillo!!!

D'OH!!

It happens to the best of us.  And I would know, because I am the best of us.  And yet, in a spelling bee one year, final round, I got super-lucky and my final-round word was "warehouse"...and I f*cking spelled it "warehowse."