Way to Normal: Stems and Seeds! (SPOILERS-ish)

  • 259 Replies
  • 86416 Views
*

Offline You Dont Know Zach

  • *****
  • 2016
  • Gender: Male
  • And it's terrible pain, and it's all for free.
Re: Way to Normal: Stems and Seeds! (SPOILERS-ish)
« Reply #165 on: February 07, 2009, 09:59:25 PM »
Yay! No "Whe" in Cologne! What a great day this is!

No what? I know about the "that's it" but apparently I've never caught this. Maybe because I haven't listened to Way to Normal much on my new headphones.

right after "such a painful trip, to find out this is it", there's a vocal slip up that sounds similar to "werg".  listen closely.  it's there.

I hate that I was the first to point that out. Up until then no one else had heard it. Now everyone has. I don't even LISTEN to that version of Cologne anymore, just the DVD version.
i still don't understand why it's such a big deal. ben left a wrong note in at the end of 'bastard' and you can hear robert laugh in steven's last night. all minor f*ck ups, all give the album character.
the latter two feel natural. the one in cologne just seems forced, it's in time, like it was put there on purpose. that's what's weird. where as a phone call and the giggle fit that happens because of it is a bit more charactery. IMO
actually the note that jared hits jumps right out at you if your listening to it in the right frame of mind. it's pretty obvious, but it fits. the 'whe' is natural as well because as chris pointed out, no one heard it until he said something.
dont overplay, keep it simple and in the pocket, support the song, and you will be asked to play more than you have time to. - Chuck Folds

http://www.last.fm/user/YoudontknowZach

*

Offline Jebus

  • *
  • 17
Re: Way to Normal: Stems and Seeds! (SPOILERS-ish)
« Reply #166 on: February 08, 2009, 12:18:40 AM »
Do we know if the fake tracks are being remastered too?

They are listed as being on the CD, so they may be...however, weren't they recorded and mixed in completely different sessions, they don't sound much in need of a remastering to me...

*

Offline Allison

  • *****
  • 8208
  • Gender: Female
Re: Way to Normal: Stems and Seeds! (SPOILERS-ish)
« Reply #167 on: February 08, 2009, 12:31:08 AM »
Yay! No "Whe" in Cologne! What a great day this is!

No what? I know about the "that's it" but apparently I've never caught this. Maybe because I haven't listened to Way to Normal much on my new headphones.

right after "such a painful trip, to find out this is it", there's a vocal slip up that sounds similar to "werg".  listen closely.  it's there.

I hate that I was the first to point that out. Up until then no one else had heard it. Now everyone has. I don't even LISTEN to that version of Cologne anymore, just the DVD version.
i still don't understand why it's such a big deal. ben left a wrong note in at the end of 'bastard' and you can hear robert laugh in steven's last night. all minor f*ck ups, all give the album character.
the latter two feel natural. the one in cologne just seems forced, it's in time, like it was put there on purpose. that's what's weird. where as a phone call and the giggle fit that happens because of it is a bit more charactery. IMO
actually the note that jared hits jumps right out at you if your listening to it in the right frame of mind. it's pretty obvious, but it fits. the 'whe' is natural as well because as chris pointed out, no one heard it until he said something.
hahahaa. i don't even know what the miss-step in bastard is. cause i know it the way it is. i think it's cause we have a cologne with and without the whegh that makes it weird.

Do we know if the fake tracks are being remastered too?

They are listed as being on the CD, so they may be...however, weren't they recorded and mixed in completely different sessions, they don't sound much in need of a remastering to me...
yeah, the fake stuff sounds more dynamic than the real stuff. no need for a remaster, imo. unless he feels like it. which is fine by me.
mel (1:10:14 AM): love ben folds or burn!

*

Offline You Dont Know Zach

  • *****
  • 2016
  • Gender: Male
  • And it's terrible pain, and it's all for free.
Re: Way to Normal: Stems and Seeds! (SPOILERS-ish)
« Reply #168 on: February 08, 2009, 12:45:09 AM »

hahahaa. i don't even know what the miss-step in bastard is. cause i know it the way it is. i think it's cause we have a cologne with and without the whegh that makes it weird.
well it's really two different songs almost. as for miss-step it's right at the end and it's just a wrong note that sounds a little off. 
dont overplay, keep it simple and in the pocket, support the song, and you will be asked to play more than you have time to. - Chuck Folds

http://www.last.fm/user/YoudontknowZach

Re: Way to Normal: Stems and Seeds! (SPOILERS-ish)
« Reply #169 on: February 08, 2009, 05:27:41 AM »
I've just listened to the Amazon streaming version and think this mix is HEAPS better than the original. All the vocals are cleaner and more in the front of the mix, even Free Coffee and Dr Yang have the vocals boosted so that distortion in the piano sound works much better. There's a lot of background vocals and instrumentation that I hadn't even noticed before and the instruments generally have a lot more space. No longer is it just a big wall of unpleasant noise.

I was expecting the remix, but the editing and alternate takes are also a big improvement. No more 'Before Cologne' makes sense, I don't miss the talking at the end of Hiroshima at all and think the 'live crowd' aspect is handled much better than originally.

If the differences are this marked on a crappy streamed version, I have great hopes for the CD. I even prefer this new track order

*

Offline ClareQuilty

  • ****
  • 353
  • Gender: Female
  • Yep. This is I.
Re: Way to Normal: Stems and Seeds! (SPOILERS-ish)
« Reply #170 on: February 08, 2009, 08:34:43 AM »
Honestly, I didn't think the original mix was all that bad, but now that I've had a listen to these... Well, I'm very happy that Ben and Co. decided to do it.

I can only speak for myself, but if these results had been achieved at the cost of waiting another month or so originally, I wouldn't have mind the wait. I hope production takes that into consideration the next time Ben puts out an album.
As you know I hang upside down in a dark closet like a bat until summoned.

Re: Way to Normal: Stems and Seeds! (SPOILERS-ish)
« Reply #171 on: February 08, 2009, 09:11:39 AM »
I mentioned earlier that The Frown Song now utilizes a partially (or completely) different vocal track on the new version.  I also just noticed that this is the case with Kylie as well.  Certain parts are clearly different vocal takes.  Not sure what that means to different people, but there are different things I like about both mixes. 

It reminds me of when Pet Sounds was first released as a stereo mix in '97 or so.  It sounded leaps and bounds better than the original mono mix in terms of sheer dynamics of the instrumentals, but some subtractions and compromises were made for the remix due to certain elements having been recorded over or missing.  "You Still Believe In Me," for example, is missing the double-layered vocal that can be heard in the mono mix, and some of the vocal parts for "God Only Knows" were recorded over by different Wilsons.  To each his own on this kind of stuff.  So far I agree with most of the minor changes made by Ben in this new mix, although some of them will take some getting used to as well, being that I'm so familiar with the original now. 

Re: Way to Normal: Stems and Seeds! (SPOILERS-ish)
« Reply #172 on: February 08, 2009, 12:12:35 PM »
Honestly, I didn't think the original mix was all that bad, but now that I've had a listen to these... Well, I'm very happy that Ben and Co. decided to do it.

I can only speak for myself, but if these results had been achieved at the cost of waiting another month or so originally, I wouldn't have mind the wait. I hope production takes that into consideration the next time Ben puts out an album.

I don't think it was a matter of rushing that the album sounded the way it did. Ben takes responsibility for it as he obviously has the final say on things, but it was apparently the artistic direction the producer wanted to take the album. Haven't heard any of the remixes yet but I'm hoping it's more what Ben usually sounds like. Dennis Herring is a fine producer and I admire him taking Ben into new sonic territory, but I don't think Ben needs to sound THAT in your face big and compressed when the BFF records are badass enough and were just recorded as 'band playing in a room'. Some bands just sound better being recorded as performers, and some bands sound better when they piece their songs together utilizing the studio. I think Ben is clearly the former and not the latter of those options.

Re: Way to Normal: Stems and Seeds! (SPOILERS-ish)
« Reply #173 on: February 08, 2009, 04:11:19 PM »
As far as Dennis Herring taking him into new "sonic territory," remember that the original mess of a mix isn't really Herring's fault.  Most of the compression problems occurred in the mastering process, which would have been after the producer locked his mix in.  At that point it was probably out of Dennis Herring's hands.  There were obviously uncompressed masters used to create this new mix, and I'm guessing the original mixdown probably sounded more like this new version (minus the new tweaks).  The mastering process which flattened out the dynamic range was afterwards...so I hope people don't totally throw Dennis Herring under the bus for the way the album turned out.

*

Offline TheGreatBenfolio

  • *****
  • 983
  • Gender: Male
  • Is there a funnel from her butt to your mouth now?
Re: Way to Normal: Stems and Seeds! (SPOILERS-ish)
« Reply #174 on: February 08, 2009, 04:17:11 PM »
If anything we should thank Dennis. Look at all that's come out of this album, this tour.... Like I've said before, it's a great time to be a fan.

*

Offline perthgirl

  • *****
  • 1049
  • Gender: Female
  • Up with this I will not put - Bernard Black
Re: Way to Normal: Stems and Seeds! (SPOILERS-ish)
« Reply #175 on: February 08, 2009, 08:02:54 PM »
I actually wonder how much of Ben's back catalogue Dennis heard prior to working with him.  I have doubts he was all that familiar.
It's easy to be easy and free when it doesn't mean anything...

Re: Way to Normal: Stems and Seeds! (SPOILERS-ish)
« Reply #176 on: February 08, 2009, 10:01:32 PM »
As far as Dennis Herring taking him into new "sonic territory," remember that the original mess of a mix isn't really Herring's fault.  Most of the compression problems occurred in the mastering process, which would have been after the producer locked his mix in.  At that point it was probably out of Dennis Herring's hands.  There were obviously uncompressed masters used to create this new mix, and I'm guessing the original mixdown probably sounded more like this new version (minus the new tweaks).  The mastering process which flattened out the dynamic range was afterwards...so I hope people don't totally throw Dennis Herring under the bus for the way the album turned out.

True, but Ben also remarked how this record was even recorded in a manner that would support that - mic choices, close-micing everything, telling them to perform it in a certain way, etc. etc. So if you mic your vocal with a really dirty sounding ribbon mic, record it really close up, put compression on the vocal, THEN compress the whole stereo mix of the song, the resulting sound is pretty much the way it is because of the producer.

That said, I agree with TheGreatBenfolio - thanks to Herring we're getting a LOT from Ben so, thanks Dennis!

*

Offline Allison

  • *****
  • 8208
  • Gender: Female
Re: Way to Normal: Stems and Seeds! (SPOILERS-ish)
« Reply #177 on: February 08, 2009, 10:32:42 PM »
As far as Dennis Herring taking him into new "sonic territory," remember that the original mess of a mix isn't really Herring's fault.  Most of the compression problems occurred in the mastering process, which would have been after the producer locked his mix in.  At that point it was probably out of Dennis Herring's hands.  There were obviously uncompressed masters used to create this new mix, and I'm guessing the original mixdown probably sounded more like this new version (minus the new tweaks).  The mastering process which flattened out the dynamic range was afterwards...so I hope people don't totally throw Dennis Herring under the bus for the way the album turned out.

True, but Ben also remarked how this record was even recorded in a manner that would support that - mic choices, close-micing everything, telling them to perform it in a certain way, etc. etc. So if you mic your vocal with a really dirty sounding ribbon mic, record it really close up, put compression on the vocal, THEN compress the whole stereo mix of the song, the resulting sound is pretty much the way it is because of the producer.

That said, I agree with TheGreatBenfolio - thanks to Herring we're getting a LOT from Ben so, thanks Dennis!

Yeah, everything we've read about this ridiculous microphoning is Herring's idea. (Silly ones)
But, Herring isn't a bad producer, imo, just not suited for Ben Foldsy music. I mean, he produced both We Were Dead.. and Good News... by Modest Mouse, and both those records, in my opinion, are great sounding. No issues with the production there. However, Modest Mouse fans normally are not fans of those records, if they're pre-Float On. And, not to mention Modest Mouse is a very different type of sound than Ben Folds is. He's also producing the upcoming Mute Math record- which is another more electronicy band. A louder band than Ben Folds. I mean, look at the way they recorded Whatever..... their biggest commercial success. Totally opposite of Way to Normal. I know you grow as an artist, but why fix something that's not broken?
mel (1:10:14 AM): love ben folds or burn!

*

Offline Andy

  • *****
  • 3439
  • Gender: Male
  • I went because you said you'd be there
Re: Way to Normal: Stems and Seeds! (SPOILERS-ish)
« Reply #178 on: February 09, 2009, 12:47:38 AM »
But, Herring isn't a bad producer

I think the Hives broke him.

~A
So smooth you can hear the beard.

*

Offline Allison

  • *****
  • 8208
  • Gender: Female
Re: Way to Normal: Stems and Seeds! (SPOILERS-ish)
« Reply #179 on: February 09, 2009, 06:18:41 AM »
But, Herring isn't a bad producer

I think the Hives broke him.

~A

Hahahaahahahahahahaha. Okay. Maybe he used to be a decent one. I'm gonna wait to see if I have the hate out for the upcoming Mute Math record, when ever it finally comes out.
mel (1:10:14 AM): love ben folds or burn!